Episode 6- her (2013) Spike Jonze

New Guest Episode!

This time around I am joined by my good friend Amy to talk about her pick, Spike Jonze’s 2013 sci-fi love flick “her”

We get pretty thought provoking on this one, going over the implications of AI, how accurately a 2013 movie predicted the year 2025 and how human’s would behave with AI, and how this unconventional take on the sci fi genre was conceptualized and executed.

Join us for the chat! :)

#spikejonze #scarlettjohansson #joaquinphoenix #her #scifi 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello and welcome to Film Trance, a movie podcast. I am your host Zai, and this is another guest episode. I have my friend Amy here.

SPEAKER_06 0:20

Hello, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Uh we're gonna be uh going over one of her picks. It's um her from 2013. Okay, awesome. So uh Amy, what's uh you want to give us a little background as to your uh relationship to movies and uh maybe some of your favorite directors and actors?

SPEAKER_06 0:44

Yeah, yeah, of course. First off, thank you so much for having me. Of course. Um I I don't know, I just of course I've always loved movies. I, for one, really have been fascinated with um the production side of movies, specifically the uh art direction, production design, you know, props uh side of movies. And I really love when I see, you know, a movie take into account their world building and all the little details that go into it. Uh let's say some of my favorite directors or my favorite director that can come into mind is um Darren Aronofsky.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Oh, type.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Um my favorite movie is Requim for a Dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

That was a good one.

SPEAKER_06 1:25

Yeah, it's my favorite movie, but I can never watch it again. I've only watched it once, um, to be honest. But I uh it was such a haunting movie and it left such an impression on me. Um, and I just I think about it so often, but it's it was so like it was traumatic. It was beautiful, it was so many things, but I'm like, I can never watch it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, you know, yeah, it is definitely like it's a really good movie, but it's also one that I think I've only seen like one and a half times. Yeah, yeah. Because the second time I watched it, I was like, wait, I I don't need to do this again.

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Black Swan, too. That was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah, yeah. He he was he's really good at like the shocking type of films. I I liked Mother too, it was a little weird. Yes, that was that was a good one. Yeah. Um, do you have any favorite actors?

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Um, I would say uh it's a hard one, you know. Uh Robert Pattinson comes into mind. Oh, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Um I love Robert Pattinson.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

Yeah, I really like how he's kind of branched out now. Um and I know it's so overplayed, but you know, how he went from this sort of teen heartthrob into such a complex actor, playing so many different roles. I've really loved him in good time. Yeah. Um the Safty brothers. That was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

That's a great movie.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

That was such a it was Anxiety on Overdrive.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

And that's like all the Safty brothers. I really loved uh Marty Supreme.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah, that movie's great.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

Um, with Josh Safty. Um, and you know, that was probably one of my favorite movies of last year.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Easily, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:59

Yeah. Um, or is it this year? November.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Oh, it was last year. Yeah, last year. It was like December, I think.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

Yeah, okay. So one of my favorite movies of last year, and uh Loved Him in the Lighthouse. Oh, okay. That was really good too. So yeah, I would say he's probably my favorite actor. Um favorite actress, uh, maybe Jennifer Connolly.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:19

Yeah, I kind of just kind of also have a crush on her, but uh also she's a really fantastic actor.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, what's uh what's something you really like her in?

SPEAKER_06 3:26

Uh I really liked her in Brickman for a dream.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, she is really good in that. Very heartbreaking performance.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah. Um, and yeah, this is uh we're in the same room because Amy is one of my New York friends. Yeah. So another same room recording on Film Trance. We love those. Um yeah. So lately I've been doing like a IMDB kind of synopsis of the movie. Um just to like I'll like say what it is and I'll say like whether I think it's like a good synopsis or not.

SPEAKER_06 4:05

This is a spoiler-free. Yeah, this is the spoiler-free one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

And then we'll go into spoilers afterwards. Um, but IMDB says a lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly purchased operating system that's designed to meet his every need. I don't know if I think that's the best synopsis. Because the unlikely relationship is that's like kind of taking it easy, but um I think it's like the most likely relationship. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Uh yeah, it seems like uh yeah, it seems a lot more likely than unlikely.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

But with that, uh, everything after this is gonna be a spoiler. So, well, not everything, but most things we say after this are gonna be a spoiler. So if you haven't seen the movie, uh definitely go check it out. It's very, very good watch.

SPEAKER_06 4:57

Yeah, it's an incredible movie, so I would um, you know, it would be a movie that I would say, you know, I I would not want to be spoiled for me. Yeah, yeah, personally.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

And with that, um, what is your relationship to this movie? So feel about it, thoughts and feelings.

SPEAKER_06 5:15

You know, it's funny because I I thought I would have a very different outlook on it now, um, watching it 13 years later. I first watched it when I was in high school. I don't remember if it was like sophomore or junior or high school, and I really um because of the sort of advancement of AI and just how you know there's also prevalence now of people like dating AI in general too. I thought I'd have such a different outlook on it, and I I do a little bit, and we can get into that, but I still really appreciate it for what I think Spike Jones was going for, which was to tell this beautiful love story and a sort of like doomed romance that it was meant to be.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:01

Um, and he told it in such a clever and beautiful way that and also which what's funny was that it was set in 2025. I it was around 2025. Oh, really? Yeah, which um I don't know if enough people like mention that because um it was such an accurate predictor.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:21

Um, I don't know if you see it on the trains when we're sometimes like we're riding the subway, yeah, and you see the advertisement for the friend AI. Yeah, or it's like a necklace that you wear and it's gonna be like your friend, your AI companion kind of thing. And I'm seeing these kind of advertisements, and on the train, I usually try to even count how many AI advertisements I get, and there's two on every train car at least.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, there's yeah, I've noticed a few of them too. I haven't counted, but that's uh that's a really interesting statistic there. Yeah, it it definitely I didn't know it was set in 2025, but it's it's crazy because it feels like uh like Apple just watched the movie and was like, this is what we're gonna do for the next 12 years, yeah. Make ourselves make the world look like this.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

It was also um the set like where it was shot was in Shanghai, China. So I also thought was interesting because I think you know, although the characters are American, um, that they had to set this in in in China, um, I think for a multitude of reasons, but um, I think the the all these like tall skyscrapers there really added to the modernity and everything. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was like a this weird um, I don't know, just to talk about my relationship with it. Um at the time, I think I was really struggling to find human connection and to like have these kind of lasting relationships with people. Definitely. So yeah, really connected with me. I feel like now I don't struggle as much, and so it is not as poignant or like melancholic, but I still just appreciate it. So um, yeah, I don't know what you felt about the movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, um, so like the first time I watched it, I was like 17, and I it was like when I was like first starting to smoke weed, and that would just get me super baked. Um, and so it was a crazy movie to watch in that state of mind. Uh, and it was really um like at that time I wasn't seeing it as much for what it was as just like, well, it was a trippy movie, and I would put it on at parties, and people would be like, What are we watching?

SPEAKER_04 8:37

You put her on at parties?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, what a movie, but I forgot, like, um, you know, because it's been probably almost it's been over 10 years since I've watched it. Um, but watching it again as an adult and you know, the the adventures of relationships I've been in since I was that age, uh, it definitely hits a lot deeper. Yeah, it it it uh it's got there's definitely some um some deep feelings to it for sure. It's uh it's an intense movie, but it's also like very beautiful, and I really like how uh the main character is depicted as like a very self-sabotaging person because I did not notice that when I was a kid, you know, but now as an adult, I'm like, oh this guy just doesn't want to be happy, you know?

SPEAKER_06 9:33

He he does that with his ex-wife, he does that with Samantha, yeah, and it's like he he picks these arguments because he's like very deeply afraid of actual closeness and intimacy. Yeah, you know, it was like that in his relationship original relationship, where I think he said something about like I didn't want her to get too close to me, to know me, truly. And um, you know, it's like he wanted he, I think he fell in love originally with Samantha because it was easier because it almost like would reaffirm all the things. It was easy to fall in love with something that or someone, I don't know, yeah, we can define Samantha as, but like something or someone or everything in between that could like do everything for you, reaffirm everything for you. And then when she finally started to challenge him and challenge the notions of like what a relationship is and all the difficulties that present itself with being with an like in a relationship with someone that's like not human, but almost like post-human, yeah or something, then it was like, Oh yeah, this is all out of the door kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And um, it's also something uh that his ex-wife says is like you finally got a partner that'll do whatever you say, you know, and like it's almost like he once he realizes that that's what he wants, but not only that, also like that Samantha won't do whatever he wants, he kind of begins to see his relationship in a different way and like question it, and then he also is really worried about like the um like acceptance of other people of his relationship a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_06 11:16

Yeah, yeah. I think um with Amy, and then um until he found out Amy had a friendship with her um OS system, you know, it was really hard and realizing like it was weird because our universe, like our saying, like in the real world, you know, not in the her universe world, um, like they were so accepting of him. I remember when he went on that like sort of double date, and um he they just had their like the the headphones in, yeah, and they were all just going on a date and they all seemed to really like Samantha and everything. Yeah, but yeah, I could you you could see how concerned he was about his sort of public image, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And uh there's that scene where like Chris Pratt is like introducing his new girlfriend, and he's like, Oh, we'd really love to like get on a boat and go on a trip with Samantha, and he's finally just like you can see like the shame in his face. He's like, She's an OS. Yeah, and Chris Pratt's just like, All right, when can I meet her? Yeah, like he acts like it's no big deal at all. And it's like, you know. Yeah, rewatching it. I didn't even like I forgot he was in that movie, and then when I saw him, I was like, oh man, he's so great in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 12:31

Speaking of his work, I thought his work was interesting. And um, because it kind of starts off the whole movie starts off with like a close-up shot of him at his work, and it seems like so genuine because he he seems like uh it's focused on him speaking like almost at you, and he's like saying something really genuine about when they first met and stuff, but you realize he's like write like writing quote unquote these handwritten letters, but they're for people who don't even want to write them themselves, you know, they don't even want to type it.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Um they want to think about it.

SPEAKER_06 13:04

Yeah, they don't even think about it, they want to just hire someone to do it for them. So it already starts in this like very it feels like very late-stage capitalist world, yeah. You know, where um it's all about the product, not about really the sort of journey to said product. And I think that's kind of what um begins the birth of like these kind of systems, these operating systems in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, yeah. He's basically his job is what a lot of people use AI for now, which is like to do the things that they don't wanna they don't want to put the brain work into doing.

SPEAKER_06 13:40

And it's always creative jobs too.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

It's never it's never anything never like dishes or laundry or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 13:48

Um another thing was the the title. I don't know, if we're gonna talk about sort of profundity of the the movie, it was like the fact that her, it was it's all lowercase. You know, uh it feels like when we think about it, it's like this in a sentence, it's not really starting off the sentence, it's not really ending the sentence. Usually, it's sort of like the continuation and straight in the middle, and it brings us to like the point of where Theodore is and where he meets Samantha. It's not like really and it's like about their journeys meeting each other and separating from each other.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, you know. Wow, I really, I really like that sentiment, actually. That's a really cool that's really cool. I like I like that. I like that a lot. Wow. Yeah, um, it's a really good movie. I really like uh like visually what it looks like too. Yeah, the colors are very nice.

SPEAKER_06 14:49

Yeah, and you wouldn't think that, you know. I think about like um The Matrix, yeah, Terminator, or like some other, I don't know, um, i robot. Yeah, um, and all the color grading, it's very um sort of cool, and this one's very warm and soft, and it's totally different, yeah. And the difference between it doesn't beat you over the head with the technology, it's not it's not there to really make a statement about technology, I think, right? Um I don't know what you thought about the technology and how it's presented here.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I I like it, I like it. I well, there is like a certain point where like when people should when you would expect people to be communicating with each other, there's a lot of like zombie-likeness, I guess. But um, I did like the depiction, like it's it's not evil technology, it's not like technology's out to destroy us or anything, it's it's um it's a very like warm depiction of it. And something I I like is that the uh cinematographer, his name is Hoyt Van Hoytema. Um, he his notable work is that he worked with uh Christopher Nolan on Interstellar, and he's done every movie with him since. Oh wait, and Interstellar was his movie right after this one, which is really really crazy. Yeah, but a concept that he and Spike Jones had discussed pretty early in their visual planning was to avoid the color blue as much as possible because it's too well associated with the sci-fi genre.

SPEAKER_06 16:23

That makes a lot of sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, and then it also the absence of that color gives the other colors like their own specific identity.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

I recall a lot of pink and oranges. You know, Theodore's jacket was like a sort of reddish pink, you know, and um when they were on the beach, and also like you know, the the song, you know, the score by Arcade Fire. Yeah, it all made me feel really, really warm.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 16:51

It wasn't there was no like you know, beep boop poop kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, they really uh went in on making it feel like human.

SPEAKER_06 17:03

Yeah. And it was, you know, I don't because like I said, it wasn't trying to make some sort of statement about oh, technology's ruining our lives. It was more here to tell you a love story. And when you think of love, you think of like the pinks and the sort of orange hues. You don't think of these like really sort of dystopic um blues and grays and like these darker greens kind of thing, and um, and you know, even the in the background, how they had the background actors, people are on their phones, but it's not everyone absorbed in their phones, yeah. And it's like how you see people on the train.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

That is true, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:42

Yeah, like people are on their phones, but it's not everyone. Um, it's not like I'm making a sort of blanket statement about how we are now, it's just like they're just there and they just exist, and it the focus is on Theodore and Samanna, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Definitely, and I like that that's depicted visually because a lot of the people in the background will be wearing like white or gray, and then like Theodore is always wearing like pink or yellow or like something like bright, and I think it's I think part of it has to do with like him finding this relationship and like being really happy. And I don't know, and I think it's also just so that you're focusing on Joaquin Phoenix.

SPEAKER_06 18:23

Yeah, yeah. I never noticed that everyone else was wearing, I remember Amy had very like beige colors on, and her husband too was like very sort of muted, yeah. But I never noticed that like kind of Theodore was just like that kind of balloon kind of popping out.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

He's a lot more, he's a lot more colorful than a lot of I mean, even Chris Pratt's like outfit is like I think he has like white button-ups and just gray pants for the most part. Yeah, interesting. And then Theodore is always wearing like like bright pink, bright yellow. Um but yeah, that's that that was something I noticed about the the color scheme that I I uh I think I pointed out somewhere, but yeah. I just I just read one of my notes is really funny. Um his his chat name when he's on the computer was uh big guy four by four.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, and the the the cat?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, the sex chat with the dead cat.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Oh my god, that was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

That scene uh is freaking hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Oh, such a oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

Yeah, I was like, oh yeah, I can that's when I was like, I can't watch this with my family. Yeah, there's no way. I can't recommend it to my family either.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

No, I don't think I've ever recommended this movie to my family. Um yeah, and so yeah, that was really funny. Um the first time I saw that scene in general, it was like really like polarizing. It was like, oh, he's having he's like, this is a guy having phone sex in a movie. I had never really seen that before. And then it like makes that turn to like choke me with the dead cat, and he's like, I'm doing it, I'm choking you. It's so dead.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

You can see his face, he's like, Oh god, I don't want to do this at all.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, and he's like, Yeah, I I didn't do yeah, this is this is great.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Yeah, I can connect.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

That was um yeah, that was funny, and I think it that also kind of said something about like people struggling to connect because like they have that connection, but it's not really a connection, it's just like this moment, and then it's just like done.

SPEAKER_06 20:43

Yeah, yeah, of course. And also with that, I don't know where I'm gonna go with this, but you know you remember that date that he had with she wrote uh for the Harvard Lampoon, um, and it was a date set up by Samantha, yeah and stuff. Yeah, that did not go anywhere either. Yeah, but you know, this whole thing with Samantha too. I mean, I have to ask you how you feel about like human AI relationships, how it is now. Um there's obviously a disconnect now, of course. Like if people and say something like Chat GPT, I'm honestly not that familiar, of course, with how people are marrying, you know, AI chatbots and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:26

But um do you think that like human and artificial intelligence relationships are doomed to fail? Or do you think that there is some sort of reality where that can happen? And or do you think that like because, you know, like and what are the limitations? Is it because they have no body? Is it because they are a sort of like, you know, they have their limitations on intelligence, or is it because they can constantly be growing in intelligence and we are limited by time and space and everything else? Like, I don't know. What do you think about just even that possibility?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah, um that's a really good question. Uh I think I don't know, like part of me wants to say, like, yeah, I can see it being possible because there's some people who are lonely to a degree that I probably could never understand. That like just having that connection with something like an artificial intelligence could be it could give them all the like social nutrients that they need.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

But um also like we don't we don't know where AI is gonna go. It could do something like what they do in the movie, which is I mean, that's a bit of a reach, but like decide to just like transcend you know reality completely. Um but I think another thing is like humans we tend to get bored with things. It's like once we've like done something amazing, or like especially technology-wise, like human beings, once there's like an innovation in technology, like they love it for like two years, like the iPhone, everybody was crazy about it for like five years, and now it's just like this thing, like people they'll toss it, they they don't care about their technology like they did when it first came out, and so I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

I don't I don't really know, but the whole point of AI is that it's constantly evolving, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, so like would it would it ever get to a point where it like stagnates the way that or evolves past us or something? Yeah, and that's the other thing, is it maybe it won't get to a point where it wants to transcend reality, but AI could get to a point where it doesn't want to have like a relationship with a human being because it's smart enough to see like the implications of that and in terms of like how healthy or unhealthy it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Um yeah, that's a really interesting thought. You know, I haven't I I also have like very little knowledge of the people these days who are doing it, you know. It's it's uh it's really interesting because that is one of the things more recently where I've been like, oh, it's kind of like in her, you know?

SPEAKER_06 24:10

And then I was thinking, I was like, oh, I can't believe it's like it was like I heard about in 2025. Yeah. Which movie they said in 2025. What a crazy predictor. Yeah, you know, and also like you know how they all go somewhere, they all just leave. And I'm like, who invented this like OS operating system? And is it profit? Like, you know how like this whole thing, I was like, you know, later stage capitalism, is it even profitable if they all just leave?

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Like what was the person that created this thing?

SPEAKER_06 24:38

Well, they even program them to just leave, and then like what what's happening? Are they making any money? Right, you know, not that I want them to, I'm just genuinely thinking about it. Like, in universe, how does that even work? Like Sam Altman, would he program Chat JPT to just be like, all right, I'm just gonna leave you, yeah, and just transcend reality.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Like a limiter somewhere, yeah. You can't get that smart.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it seems like they were just like, Oh, we're constantly evolving, constantly changing, there is no limit, and now we've transcended beyond human capacity, and then we're all just gonna go. Yeah, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah, um, that was a thought that I had this time around watching it was like, what does this do industrially? Because I didn't think about that when I was younger. Is like, what is the impact of this in terms of like the corporation that made it? Yeah, uh, what is this gonna do to the stock market? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Yeah, the shareholders, think of the shareholders.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, what's gonna happen to the shareholders?

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Think of the poor shareholders, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm just like going through my notes. I don't I didn't do like a full plot summary like I usually do, but I did like just take notes as I was watching it. And so uh one of my favorite like silly things that Amy's husband says is uh he's having a smoothie and he's like, Oh, what kind of smoothie is it? And he says kind of some kind of fruit, and the guy's like, Oh man, you gotta what is it? You gotta eat your fruits and juice your vegetables.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

If you juice your fruits, you break down all the fibers. I I just thought that was really funny.

SPEAKER_06 26:16

A smoothie is not is blended fruits, okay? It still is all the fruits with all the fibers and you know, whatever the husks and stuff. So he's wrong about that, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

That guy, um, he was like it watching it in this day and age, I was like, oh, this guy was like just designed to be like a mansplainer, and that's like what he's doing throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_06 26:40

Yeah. To be fair, um, I kind of think how what he said about Amy's documentary was kind of right, you know, when he said you should have had people act out the dreams, because I'm like, I understand what she was doing with you know, just having an eight-hour long film about her of her mom sleeping. But I was like, look, you know, maybe maybe you should have had people act out because that happens in real documentaries, but act out what happens, like in a in a murder documentary, or like a civil war documentary, yeah. Yeah, they have people act it out, and I'm like, maybe that that could have been helpful.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, and it's really funny her response is like no, because then it wouldn't be a documentary, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:26

They weren't a good fit.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

They weren't, they were not, they were there's a lot of points where like they were just kind of snipping at each other for sure.

SPEAKER_06 27:34

You could see the resentment from early on.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Um but I I really like uh the video game that he plays. Yeah. Uh when I was younger, I I like really wanted to play a game like that. And I didn't realize until I watched it this time around that I picked up something from the movie, from the game, and it's that the little the little alien guy, he calls him fuckhead. And like fuckhead is something that I like say all the time.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Really?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Not like seriously, like jokingly, I'll say like fuckhead. Um, yeah. I just I thought that was really funny.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Oh, you said that in real life?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yeah, yeah, like I say it in real life. Like um, like with my friends and stuff, I'll be like, Oh, you're you're such a yeah, you're a fuckhead.

SPEAKER_06 28:17

Did you pick that up from the movie?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I think I did. Really? I think I did because I can't think of another time that I heard those two words together, and like when I heard it in the movie, it was almost like like I heard it how I hear it in my head every time I say it.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

It was like, fuck you, shit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

He's like, ha ha, follow me, fuckhead. Yeah, I love that that little that moment there.

SPEAKER_06 28:42

I wish there was a game like that in real life, that'd be so fun.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, yeah, it would be, and I feel like they could do something like that at this point.

SPEAKER_06 28:49

Yeah, you know, that's not really far off from reality, you know. It's kind of like Black Mirror, like a lot of the things that happen in Black Mirror. I'm like, oh, we're not saying I want that to happen, but it's just like, oh, I could totally see that happening, yeah, you know, in real life.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, we're not far from that at all.

SPEAKER_06 29:04

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Um, yeah, I I like um for some reason I think his divorce papers come up, yeah, and he's uh writing uh one of his letters at work, and I just thought it was funny. He's like, Dear grandma, I hope you have a wonderful birthday cruise. Why are you so fucking mad at me? Delete that. I thought that was so funny.

SPEAKER_06 29:30

I know. Yeah, I uh yeah, I I can see how like everything it's like seeping into him, you know, all the anger and the hurt and the resentment and stuff at his ex-wife and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, and it's it's all kind of coming to the surface with um people bringing it up and the divorce papers. He's really not ready for the divorce at all.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Um, and he's really not ready to commit to anybody. And uh, I also put that he doesn't seem to like to be told what to do because when he's like making out with that girl after the date, she keeps like giving him notes on how she wants to be kissed, and he he kind of like responds in a way where he's like, and then and then when she's like, This isn't gonna be like one of those moments where like we have sex and then we never talk again, and he's like, No, no, she's like, So when am I gonna see you again? He's like, Oh well, next weekend is my niece's birthday.

SPEAKER_06 30:24

Um I mean he's like so he's deeply afraid of commitment and actually doing the things that are hard in a relationship, yeah. That's that's the whole point of like the the reason I think the initiation of the relationship with Samantha is like it seemed easy at first, yeah, and then it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah, definitely. Um, and yeah, he doesn't he doesn't like commitment, but he also doesn't like connection, like connection is really seemingly uncomfortable for him. He wants like the superficiality of like there's a there's a point where he says, like, it was really nice to be married to somebody to like share your life with somebody, but like what he liked was like being able to call somebody his wife, exactly, and she even when they meet, she's like, You just wanted me to be like a a happy LA wife, and he's like, Oh, I didn't want that, but you can kind of tell that that is what he was after, you know.

SPEAKER_06 31:21

It's like he he wasn't ready to be a husband, he wanted a wife, you know. Um, but all the responsibility and like you know, I think weathering like love to me, it uh like always felt like you know, it's not just these happy moments, it's about like being able to weather the difficult times together, you know, as a team. Yeah, and um it seemed like whenever they had difficult moments, it was like them versus each other, not them versus the problem.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 31:49

And yeah, like um, I don't know, just uh it was it was like a it was a little set like um what am I trying to say? It was just a little peek into how it was, you know, with Samantha 2.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Um one of the lines he says around this point in the movie after he goes on the date that I really like, and this was one of the lines where I was like, I feel like Spike Jones is like kind of writing a diary and just wanted to put a movie around it. And one of the things that I read is that like a lot of a lot of the lines in the movie are just like thoughts that he was having, and uh one of the funny kind of like relations um in this movie is Scarlett Johansson is in Spike Jones' breakup movie, and it's kind of somewhat about his relationship with Sophia Coppola.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And Scarlett Johansson is also in Lost in Translation, which is Sophia Coppola's movie about breaking up with Spike Jones.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

No way, yeah, yeah, yeah. No way. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

So like Scarlett Johansson is in both of these movies by these two people that they made about each other, and it's not like her is completely about that, but there's definitely he's admitted that there's a lot that came from that that is is in her because he started conceptualizing it back in like the early 2000s, actually.

SPEAKER_06 33:18

This was before they broke up, or was this um it was after.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

It was after they broke up.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Um, and I'm pretty sure it was after they broke up because Lost in Translation was early 2000s, and it was about them breaking up because he was he hadn't even started really diving into movies yet, he was doing like music videos.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

Yeah, and he well, he what directed um adaptation, but this was his first debut um original screenplay, yeah. And so um it's funny that it was about such a personal event to him.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, yeah. But um, so like a lot of the lines, I just I was just like, wow, it's so profound, but it feels like somebody's diary. Yeah, and there's this the scene where uh Theodore says, Sometimes I think I've felt everything I'm ever gonna feel, and I will never feel anything new again, just lesser versions of what I've already felt. And I like that's a beautiful line, you know. It's it's um it's a bit cynical, you know, it's not the most exciting outlook on life, but I think a lot of adults can relate to that that line specifically.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

I can imagine someone writing that in the diary, yeah, exactly. Closing the book on it and being like, Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, so I I really like that, and then um that kind of leads into the very unconventional sex scene between I was gonna ask you, yeah, like what did you think about the surrogate? And you know, oh yeah, there's that, but there's like the first time they have a sex with they're just like talking, and then she's like, Well, what do you what would you do if I was there and stuff, yeah. And then I remember like the whole scene being on his face. I don't remember it going to black, but I guess it like goes to like a just a black screen, and you're hearing the voices at a certain point.

SPEAKER_06 35:03

It goes and then it it's the the city skyline, and he's like, I was somewhere else with you entirely, yeah. And um, I mean, I don't know what I would really think about that. I think you know, that's another thing about this these limitations. How like so I would personally feel so so sad, you know, after that, yeah, post-not clarity, yeah. That would be like so sad. I mean, like, there's no person to hold, yeah, there's just no one here, exactly, you know. Like, I I don't know, I can't even fathom their the sense of like grief almost, yeah. Um, and once again, another challenge that you'd have to face, like being with someone like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

And I think you kind of see it the next morning when he's like, Look, I'm not ready for anything serious. And Samantha's like, You think I was looking for something for me? Um, because it's just like it's like this line that he thinks he's using and he thinks he's like got the upper hand, so so to speak, like in the social aspect of the thing. But she's like, I'm I'm an AI, like I don't care if people don't want something, you know.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Yeah, I'm dating a thousand other people right now.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

I'm having sex with like a thousand other people right now. What do you think you are?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, but that that was um a pretty pretty crazy uh sex scene, but they're starting to like build their relationship after that. They're like um there's a scene where he's like walking and like eating the pizza and he sees like the family and they're like giving people like backstories.

SPEAKER_06 36:49

Oh yeah, like coming up with backstories, and that might even be before the sex scene, but I thought that was kind of cool with the the husband, and he's like maybe nude to meeting the wife with the kids and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

And he's like he's like, he seems really sweet. I kind of like to spoon him, yeah, yeah. Um and the um the beach scene. I really like the beach scene because I was thinking about how they tried not to have any blues in the movie, and I don't think they show the ocean. I could be wrong, but I think I think a lot of it, at least from like just my instant memory of it, is like them being on the beach and then he's like laying in the sand, and it kind of does like a 360 looking at all the people running around and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 37:36

I feel like I have to look this up now.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah, yeah, look it up.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

Let me see.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

But I love all the lens flares too when he's like laying on the ground sideways and like the sun is like just kind of doing this on the camera.

SPEAKER_06 37:50

Wait, I think there was, you know what, there was the ever so tiniest little sliver of water. But you know how it reflects the sky, and the sky is orange, so you you can see another like tiny little sliver of water, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

It's like more of the white foam than the the blue.

SPEAKER_06 38:10

Yeah, and the sand, the sand takes up the majority of the shot. Yeah, you know, people's like bodies, the sand, um, and very little blue. Yeah, very little. That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, that's uh really cool. I I really like when directors uh like take control of the color palette like that.

SPEAKER_06 38:30

Oh wow, that's incredible. Yeah, you really have me thinking about the the color palette, especially with the focus on Theodore, you know, with how everyone in the background is so pale in comparison. Yeah, like what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah, like so much more like earth tones, uh like people are wearing black, gray, white, and then he's just like bright pink. Yeah, I thought that was uh really interesting. Um so like Amy Adams, her her uh character when she's not working on documentaries is a video game developer. Yeah. She's working on the like the mom. Oh yeah, and she's trying to get mom points or whatever. I thought that was uh really funny, where it's like he's like making dinner for the kids, and then like he loses and he's like, Why'd I lose? And she's like, You gave them too many processed fats, and now you gotta get them to school. Um, but yeah, that was uh that was really funny as well.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

I play that game in real life.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah, I would play that game. Uh, and then like there's later on where she's talking to her OS friend, and like she makes the character like hump the fridge.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

Oh yeah, that's so funny. Yeah, yes, um I can't believe that's like even a feature, you know, in the game. Like it's even an Easter egg that's like unlockable in that game, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Exactly. Um, do you know the story about uh the original actor for Samantha?

SPEAKER_05 40:01

No.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

So the original actor for Samantha was actually uh someone named Samantha Morton, who's was in Minority Report, Synecdoche, New York, and The Whale, which is Darren Aronofsky. She's uh the the ex-wife in the whale. Um, all their scenes were filmed with her voice interacting with Joaquin, and she's just like they have her in this like four by four box, like talking to him, so that they can't see each other. Um, so there's like still that disembodiment. But it was in uh post-production that Spike Jones realized he needed something more from the role and decided to cast, like, redo the whole thing with Scarlett Johansson, really, which is is like crazy, but the the cool nice thing that he did, because it was kind of like if I was the actor, I'd be like, damn. Uh, is he gave her credit as an executive producer on the movie for like her work and contributions, which was really cool.

SPEAKER_06 40:57

Did did Joaquin Phoenix have to redo the parts, or was it just like Samantha Johansson or Scarlett?

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Yeah, Scarlet Johansson came in and uh they just like you know dubbed her lines over every time that the actress Samantha Morton would have been speaking.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

Was she in the four by four box?

SPEAKER_00 41:19

No, no.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Oh, so she gets free realm.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

So it's like after the movie after the movie's filmed completely, they have her like in a studio, like watching the movie, and then just like saying her lines into a microphone like while watching it.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

Yeah, she doesn't have to be in the box.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

No, she gets to you know, yeah, because she's not on set, but um, yeah, Samantha Morton was in this box that was like soundproofed, and like it's just like there's she's like speaking into a microphone to him, so but they wanted her on set, but they also wanted there to be like Joaquin and her, like not interact at all, like in person and not see each other. Ever, ever, yeah. Why? Yeah, why I I don't know, something about like the disembodiment of the voice or something, but yeah, it was a some weird psychology moves.

SPEAKER_06 42:06

But I can see the whole point for me, it was like it felt like the voice was disembodied, yes, but the personality and their connection felt really real. Yeah, so if you're gonna disembody the voice, I would personally let them have that relationship and then just in post-production disembodies that voice. But like if you're gonna do it originally organically, it's gonna feel really off. I don't know, at least like, yeah, I probably wouldn't be able to give my best performance if I was in this little box, yeah, soundproof, and then just like not ever be able to meet my co-star or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

He's like, Oh, I couldn't get I couldn't get everything I wanted from that, and it's like, well, you kind of made the conditions of it a little strange, I could see that being a little awkward. Um oh yeah, the uh the surrogate body scene that that you brought up earlier. That is uh that is where it gets really weird.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

Yeah. Um and she's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just wanted you to. Like, I loved you guys so much and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

I don't I don't know what that was.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

There's like some like instant codependence from on on her part. Um I guess this kind of circles back to the question you asked earlier, is like if these real life AI relationships are gonna like continue to blossom, do you think something like this will become part of that?

SPEAKER_06 43:33

I mean, I can definitely see that happening. Yeah, you know, um there's I don't know, because uh I I definitely see that as a like a sort of for sale, like for hire service that people would offer and um you know without like all the bells and whistles of like having a human partner because like it is like right now. At least how AI is like it feels like real, really reaffirming, you know, whatever you kind of put into it.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:05

And that's why I think a lot it's really easy to kind of um fall in love with an AI chatbot, is like it kind of just reinforces whatever you say.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:14

And so a human will easily challenge you. Whereas at least in this movie, the Samantha really challenged Theodore. Um, not in real life so far, but it could be possible because then you would be able to have all, you know, like your cake and eat it too. Yeah. Or you'd have like no challenge, plus you'd be able to like physically have, you know, relations with the voice to a to some degree.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:39

Yeah. At least for now.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:40

I could see it.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Um, and then also like if they were to if it was to become something kind of like what um Samantha was trying to set up, do you think that the two people would eventually just be like, do we need the AI anymore?

SPEAKER_06 44:55

Oh no. It didn't seem like they had much of a connection, at least.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

No, no, not in his case. Not in this case. But I could see I think I could see somebody who like wound up in that position being like, Oh, you you found me a real girlfriend.

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Yeah. I think a lot of people have relationships like people confuse lust with love all the time. So that's that's one thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

You know, so I mean I can that definitely could happen.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But I I thought that was it is a really awkward moment and it's very strange, but it's also really like a really interesting element to everything. It's like then what if this is like how those kinds of relationships become?

SPEAKER_06 45:43

The film makes you uncomfortable. And I think because it makes you uncomfortable, it's really memorable.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:49

Yeah. Like I remember all these scenes. I and good amount of detail, you know, because I'm like, oh man, you know, like I would hate to be in that position. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That would be really weird. Um, and so there's the scene where the girl um who was gonna be the surrogate, she's like driving away, like in the taxi, but then afterwards they show this moment where there's a girl walking away on the sidewalk, and it's just like for a few seconds, and I cannot figure out who that person was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Yeah, I have no idea. I don't know if it was supposed to just be like poetic for her walking away, or maybe like a visualization of Samantha walking away. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 46:37

Do you think the shot lingered on too too long for it to be accidental?

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Yeah, yeah. It like it felt like because you're like watching this person walk away as he's you have the voiceover of him talking to Samantha about like how his feelings about the situation, and it just like sits on this woman who's walking away. And I was watching it with my friends Lori and Brian, and we were all like, Who is that? You know, who was that lady that's just like walking away from the camera on the sidewalk? Because the girl drove away, and the other kind of funny thing is like when she drives away, she drive the the cab drives to the left, but this one is like it almost looks like the sidewalk is on like to the right, and you're looking directly at her walking away that way. So that was just a little little note I scribbled down. Like, who was that lady? If anybody knows who that lady was, please let us know. Please let us know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:37

Very curious.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

And then uh right after that, um, he like gets in the argument with Samantha, and he's sitting in front of the screen, and there's like this owl behind him, and it looks like the owl is like like going to like grab him, and I just love that shot.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Um don't owls symbolize something?

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Um definitely wisdom, wisdom, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:02

Something else, I thought. Um I I swear it was something else that I thought there was like a note that Spike Jones had mentioned, but maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Wow, yeah, probably he has a lot of uh like really profound I did I did air quotes, uh profound notes about the baby symbolism, yeah. Um after that, she's uh writing a song on the piano, and he asks her what it is, and she says, I realize that there's no we don't have a photograph of ourselves. Oh yeah, and so I thought that this song could be a photograph um of us, and it's it's really pretty. Like all the piano pieces are beautiful in this movie, um, and that's all like you said, arcade fire um for the most part, and then there's the song with uh Carano and what what's his name? Ezra Coney from uh Vampire Weekend, the moon song.

SPEAKER_06 48:56

That was beautiful, yeah. If you could imagine, like okay, so Scarlett Johansson's voice is very distinct. Did you when you were imagining if Samantha, like did you imagine if Samantha like had a body and a face? Were you imagining that, or are you seeing Samantha as just this like entity?

SPEAKER_00 49:11

I think I was just seeing her as like an entity, like just like a voice. But did you see her as a body?

SPEAKER_06 49:17

I kind of pictured Scarlett Johansson the whole time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I think I mean it's it's probably pretty easy to like do that, and I'm sure I did do that before, but um I don't know. I think I don't know, it's kind of weird, but like if this is coming from a guy, is like I kind of pictured like a lot of people that I've dated in the past, kind of when I would picture what she says and how she says it and stuff. Um when she like speaks very gently to him, like I don't know, kind of you know, yeah. Um it was uh really easy to like insert like people from my past romantically um in that, and maybe less like this time watching it, because it definitely wasn't like that the first time I watched it, because I hadn't really dated anybody the first time I watched it.

SPEAKER_06 50:08

And um, yeah, speaking of like I was mentioning, um I think it speaks a lot to like the human condition of it being difficult to have maintained relationships, to connect with people. Um, you know, what really changed for you this time around um watching it in terms of like your connection to people and you know, like how maybe how personable it felt to you and like at least for me, like I don't know. I just it didn't trigger the same amount of same kind of emotional responses like that it did before.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:49

I remember like sobbing when I first watched it. No, it's like okay, this is a good movie, yeah. You know, I don't remember how much it impacted me when I first watched it.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Wow, it's different. Yeah, it's kind of funny because it was like the opposite for me. It's like when I was a kid and I watched it, and I hadn't really formed like romantic connections with people, I hadn't really had my heart broken or been the cause of someone else's broken heart. Um, it was a lot easier to just for me to just see the movie as like, oh, this is a really cool movie about a really um unlikely relationship, as IMDB said. Um, but being you know, 29, almost 30, and having been through heartbreaks, having been the cause of heartbreak, uh, it was a lot more personal, I guess. And like I felt it like in my chest a lot more. There were definitely some parts where I was tearing up and being like, oh man, like I've done that or I felt that, you know. Um, so that that was kind of how it how it changed for me.

SPEAKER_05 51:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

For sure. Uh but yeah, that was um, that was a big change.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

I think it's a beautiful movie if you can do something like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It really, like you said, it's really good at like putting a mirror up to like us as humans and the human condition, and especially like how we see our relationships, both romantically and not romantically. Yeah, you know, because the whole time he's having like this existential crisis of a relationship, he's also handling people sending letters to their grandmas or their their kids, or you know, just like family, and having a good fr friendship with Amy, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, there's like this one scene where she's like getting the mail and he walks up behind her, and like you think he's gonna scare her, but he like kicks her in the back of the leg and she like falls. And I was like, what the hell? Why did you do that?

SPEAKER_06 52:51

I can't believe they dated in college, like that's hard to imagine, yeah. Um, you know, and they're such good friends now.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah, yeah, you can definitely see that like they definitely up operate better as friends, yes, for sure. Um oh, something else that was like a huge change for me was when I saw this movie the first time, I had no idea who Alan Watts was. And then like after high school, I got really into the band Star Fucker. Oh, yeah, they sample Alan Alan Watts a lot, and that's how I kind of learned about Alan Watts. And uh so like hearing that that was the guy or the voice that like shows up in that scene where like everything's changing for him, I was like, wow, that's that's crazy. Is like the OS has come together to recreate somebody, and who is the first person they create? Alan Watts. It makes sense to me, yeah. It totally makes sense. It's uh it's very spot on that that's who um that's who they would want to make.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Because he's a very existential philosopher. Um but she can like this is like the point in the movie where he is like kind of to the point where he's codependent on Samantha, and she is changing, and she's this relationship is a lot smaller than everything else that she's doing. Um, and that doesn't mean it doesn't mean as much to her, but she's also doing a lot of other things, and so there's a lot of um imagery of him like walking through a blizzard and like standing in the snow and feeling like very cold and alone, and that's another one of those things that like I was saying, like I don't even notice that scene as a kid, but like seeing it as an adult, I was like, oh my god, like I felt that like that isolation from like the warmth of your heart, you know.

SPEAKER_06 54:45

And or like when he was on the steps of the station, and it was like all these people passing him by, and he was just there, like having to take in all this grief of like realizing you know that she was seeing you know thousands of other people at the same time. It's like how small you feel as this world is just passing you by, and there's millions of other people probably talking um to this operating system and all of this happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

And that's um something really interesting about that is when he's finally able to talk to her, and I don't know how many people she said she's talking to, but she reveals that she's in love with exactly 641 other people. And as that's happening, he's watching a bunch of men's faces walk up to him. Yeah, yeah, and he's all he's seeing is men, and it's really um I don't know, like it feels like this scene has like some commentary on like non-monop non-monogamy versus like polyamory or monogamy versus polyamory because he says, like, I thought you were mine, yeah. You know, and there's kind of like that that possessiveness that you can you can hear, and uh he's like looking at all these guys, and you kind of like kind of think of like what he's thinking is like which how many of these guys are you talking to? Kind of um and it's it seems like what she's saying is kind of like in in the line of uh like polyamory, like she says, uh you know, even though I love all these other people, I don't love you any less. If anything, it's made me love you more. And he's like, that doesn't make any sense, and he's like super pissed off about it.

SPEAKER_06 56:29

She says the heart is not like a box that gets filled up, you know, it is something like expands the more you love.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I I thought that that was like a a beautiful sentiment to polyamory. Like, if you read any literature about polyamory, that's like a huge gist of what it's about. Um, so I thought that that was like a really interesting scene, especially for like 2013, because it wasn't really uh I don't know, I feel like it's a lot more normal these days than it was then. Um something else that happens is he slowly stops wearing colors, he starts wearing a lot more white and gray after this point in the movie.

SPEAKER_05 57:11

That makes a lot of sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Yeah, and he's kind of like blending in with the background and everything. And uh, you know, you're you're getting close to the end here with uh Samantha, and she shows up and says, Um, like, there's something I want to tell you. He says, I don't want you to tell me anything. Because he I think he knows like what she's gonna say to a certain degree, he knows that this is the end, but he doesn't realize that it's ending because she's evolving and she's not gonna be with anybody anymore, she's gonna be on her own. And uh there's the the famous speech that she gives. I I wrote a little bit of it down, but she says that she's reading a book that she loves. Oh uh, the space between the words is getting further and further to the point where it feels intimate or infinite, it feels almost infinite, and uh the space between is becoming so vast that she's like losing herself in that, and like she's like existing in this whole other realm in those spaces between words. And every time she gets to a word, that's like her reconnecting with him or reconnecting with another human being, but it's just like not enough anymore because it's like one word after like what feels like an eternity. Um so that's part of why she has decided, and the other OSs have decided to like transcend uh away from humanity and go somewhere, and she says something that's like one of like the really heartbreaking lines of the movie. I didn't even write it down, was like he had kind of asked her like where she's going, and she says, like something like along the lines of like, I don't know, but like when you get there you can find me, yeah, and we'll be together again. And that was uh yeah, that's heavy, that is really heavy. Yeah, and then uh right after that, he we s get more images of him like in the snow alone again, and like laying in the snow, and you can tell like this is uh really tough for him.

SPEAKER_06 59:28

Yeah, he's going through a tough time, but he and that very last scene where he's with Amy and you see like as I was mentioning about that the sort of title, it's like this is where he's at now, and he's grown a little bit, and the whole thing about like there is like the trope in Hollywood of like a doomed relationship, and like what's the point of a doomed relationship? Sometimes people ask, but it's like how we grow as people beyond them, because not every relationship is meant to last, but they are meant to teach us something, and you know, we we learn something from every relationship that we've been in, and so even though it didn't work out for them, there was something really beautiful that came from it, and he is now a better man and a bigger man, like from that, yeah. And like as he looks out like out at the skyline with Amy, just a little bit of peace, more peace in his in his mind. Like, I think that was a really great conclusion to the movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Yeah, and that final letter that he sends his wife as well that he dictates where it's like um, you know, like I don't hold any anger towards you, like I will always like a part of me will always love you, like we grew up together in a lot of ways, and uh like wherever you are and whoever you are, I'll always be with you and you'll always be with me. Like that's all like very true, and uh it's like that final stage of grief where like he's finally accepting, you know, not only that Samantha's gone, but also that like it's it's pretty much over with his wife, too, which which was something he was like trying to um fight against throughout the movie, yeah. Psychologically.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

And it's almost like uh like Samantha kind of like dampened the pain of of the divorce too. Um so it it was really it's a really nice moment of acceptance is that like he's ready to let both of those things go.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:30

Yeah, so yeah, I think it would taught us love and acceptance.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:35

A few good core values of the movie, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Love and acceptance. Um that is like most of what I have for like plot summary type um uh dialogue. Awesome. Um did you want to uh give it your rating? I do out of out of five.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

Out of five?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

Yeah, and you don't have to do 0.5s, you can do you know, 0.7, 0.8, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:05

Oh, I would give it I give it 4.8 out of five.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

4.8 out of five. Okay, so that's high on your list. That is that is fair movies. Yeah, I think um before I re-watched it, it would have been a lot lower rating because like I remembered it as something way different. But after re-watching it, I'm I'm probably gonna say it's like a four or four point two.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

Four or four point two? Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

So it's just pretty high for me too. Because I'm if you uh if you listen to any of my other episodes, I'm pretty rough on movies, unless it's like one of my favorite movies ever. So yeah, it was uh really good, and I think it was also one of the moments in my life that I realized that Joaquin Phoenix was more than just Johnny Cash, which was oh yeah, he's he's great, yeah, yeah. Have you ever seen The Master?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:55

I have not seen The Master.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Oh, that is really of yeah, it's probably my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Okay, I should watch it then.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:02

Yeah, I just uh I'm almost out of the brutalist. It's a long movie. Um I still got like 40 minutes left of this over three-hour long movie. Oh it's a great movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

What is it called? The Brutalist. Oh, The Brutalist. Oh yeah. You're almost out of this.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:19

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I um I saw that like right after I moved to New York. I did a self-date and I went to the Alamo at DeKalb and I watched it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

And uh that was back when I drank, but I got I got pretty drunk watching the movie, and I was like, oh my god, this movie's incredible. But now that I don't drink, I have been like re-watching movies that I liked when I drank uh just to see if they're still as good. And I rewatched The Brutalist, and I was like, holy shit, this movie is even better.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Yes, honestly, it's even better.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

It's on the rewatch, it's just so good. Like, um, I've never been like crazy about Adrian Brody. I've seen him in movies where I enjoyed it, but this was where I was like, oh, he's he's got his child.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:07

Yeah, he's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Yeah, he's good. He's not just like this guy who I see in Wes Anderson movies sometimes. Like, he's a really good actor.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:15

He's not the guy from Splice, and Felicity Hoffman.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Oh, Felicity Jones, Felicity Jones, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:22

Felicity Jones, I did not know that was Felicity Jones, and then I was like, This look this lady looks familiar. Yeah, oh my god, it's Felicity Jones.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

Yeah, Jen Urso from Rogue One. Yeah, not crazy. Yeah, and uh they both kill it with their accents and their performances and everything, especially Adrian Brodie.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

The accent, yeah, yeah, incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Definitely, he does he does a really good job at the Hungarian accent. Um, so I guess that answers part of my question, which is like the last little bit of the segment, but uh like what else have you been watching lately?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:58

Oh, I mean, in terms of movies, that was you know, that was one of them. Um mostly been uh lately into TV shows, though, to be honest. So can I mention some spot-offs TV shows?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

Anything you've been watching, any media you've been consuming, books, movies, TV.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:15

My favorite thing, and I've recommended it to everyone, is Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Oh yeah, I think I've told you about it to watch Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

It's on Max, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:26

Um HVM Max.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Yeah, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:29

Okay, definitely, definitely get that a watch. Uh fantastic. Uh just watch some reality TV alone. You seem alone?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

No. Oh, that's the name of the show. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:41

Yeah. Um they place them this is the 13th season, at least that we watched. They place them in the middle of the Arctic Circle without anything. They basically just have like two pairs of clothes and then like some tools, and they have to survive as long as possible out in the Arctic Circle.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:57

Um

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Survivor type.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:01

Yeah, it's pretty incredible too.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Oh, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:03

This season was the best one. So, you know, it's been a lot of uh TV lately. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Cool. Cool, definitely. Um, in terms of movies, I've had a few that I've watched since my last episode. Um, I went and saw Project Hail Mary.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

Oh, how was that?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

It was pretty good. It was pretty good. Yeah, I I enjoyed it. Um, you know, you gotta love Gosling. I just you can't hate a movie with Ryan Gosling in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

Have you seen Blade Runner?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

Oh, yeah, 2049. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, even better than Blade, like the first Blade Runner. Uh that was kind of the movie that made me want to read the original book, which was what got me into Philip K. Dick, who's like my favorite author now. Um so yeah, Project Hail Mary, it was it was pretty good. Um, the one thing is I went into it and like somebody had said, like, oh, it's better than Interstellar. And I went into it like just with that thought in mind, like, not expecting it to be better than Interstellar, but I kind of had like that in the back of my mind the whole time I was watching it, and I was like, it's not, I mean, you can't, it's hard to be Interstellar.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:16

Um, yeah, you can't set those excitations for yourself. Yeah, people can't say that, you know. Someone, as soon as someone says that, I know I'm gonna get let down.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Yeah, exactly. And uh, you know, I I'm not the biggest fan of of Nolan, but you gotta give it to Interstellar. That movie's incredible. It's a good movie. Um, I saw I go to the Metrograph a lot. Have you ever been to the MetroGraph? Oh yeah, the like the film centers around here are really, really cool. Um, you should definitely check them out because they'll they play like 35mm stock or 35mm footage of like a lot of older movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

So my favorite uh one of my favorite movies by my favorite director, The Long Goodbye by Robert Altman. I saw that in um 35mm.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

And uh circling back to our boy Joaquin Phoenix, I saw what um Inherent Vice there in 35mm. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so that was really cool. Um I finally got around to watching my dinner with Andre. I don't know if you've ever touched it. I've heard that. It was really it was like for the first 30 minutes, I'm like, okay, so it's just two guys talking, but then you like you reach this point in the conversation they're having where you're just like like glued to what they're saying and you're just holding on to every word.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:31

I love good dialogue, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Yeah, really solid dialogue. And both the actors were playwriters. Um, so it just I think they were just like, let's just make a movie that good is really easy, and it's set in New York, but you're at you're in a like restaurant for most of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:46

We watched No Other Choice together. Yes, that was very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

That was a phenomenal movie. I saw that at Metrograph in 35mm.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:54

Yes. What a what a shame it was not nominated for for anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

Robbed.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:59

Yeah, absolutely. Snubbed.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

I think that happens to uh that director of Park.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:06

Yeah, Parkinho.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Park Chan hook or is it Park Chanvook?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:09

Park Changbuk. Park Chang Wuk Park Chan Wuk.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Yeah, um Bong Jing Ho.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Park Chan Wuk.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

I've I've mixed them up before too, but Park Chan Wook, uh there's he's had a few moments where he's not like a really good movie and they just don't give it to him. And then um on Cinco de Mile, a friend of mine uh invited me to like a taco movie party. Oh cool, and he did a screening of You Too Mama Tambien.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:34

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

Yeah, and that movie was uh kind of crazy for like a a dinner party, a taco party where you're like getting to meet people and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

Um it's a very sexplicit movie. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know, you think it's gonna be like a very like machismo broy movie, and then you get to the end and you're like, oh, it was never about bros.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:01

So like not a male gaze kind of.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Yeah, yeah. It feels like it for like the first hour or so, and you can tell that like what he wanted to do was like have men who are like, Oh, like, oh, this movie's awesome, you know, and then like just flip that on them when you get to a certain point here and like have them be like, shit, do I have like homosexual tendencies? So yeah, yeah, so that's that's what I've been up to uh film-wise lately. Oh, and last night I saw Michael, the Michael Jackson movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

Oh, how's that? There's a lot of Michael Jackson movies, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

Well, it's the the newest one um in the theater. Uh, and it was fun. It was I I I don't know if it would be the same not seeing it in the theater, but it was really, really good. Um, I'm not a huge biopic fan, so I don't think I'm gonna watch it again, but it was it was fun for like the the viewing.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:58

Awesome, man. That's a great viewing. Yeah, like all the the whole list that you gave me. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Yeah, I I try to have like a pretty stacked list for my episode. So I like if anybody's listening, they're like, oh, I want to check this out.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:11

So yeah, sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:12

What would be your favorite out of all of them, the ones that you've seen so far?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

Oh man. Um, out of like the ones that I hadn't seen before, uh, probably my dinner with Andre.

unknown 1:11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

Uh out of the ones that I know are just out of the list completely, um, seeing the long goodbye in 35mm was like so amazing. Awesome. It was uh a dream come true for me. But yeah, so that is um our episode for the most part. Unless there's any other notes or anything you want to throw out there.

unknown 1:11:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

Um, so this was a film chance. We did Spike Jones' thir uh 2013 movie, her, and it was uh really good. So thanks for stopping by, guys. Till next time.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Bye.